Ep 30 - The First Date Guide w/ Ann Koppuzha (Podcast episode Full transcript)

Full show notes on the Brown Girl Podcast website here.

Julie: . [00:00:00] So we have a really hot topic today. . but before we start, give us just a quick intro about yourself so the audience knows who you.

Ann: Sure. Um, my name is Ann. I'm in my mid thirties. I live in, uh, San Francisco Bay Area. I'm a lawyer by training. I also work on helping writers and female entrepreneurs get set up online. So everything from building their websites to, um, developing their, newsletters and social strategy.

,

Um, and on side I run this blog or Instagram page called, Modern.

They See Love and I use it to talk about South Asian relationships, um, so that we can all have happier and healthier.

Julie: Yeah. Awesome. That's actually how we got connected, I think it was through in Instagram. So, I know you've compiled a lot of your lessons learned from dating over the year.

Ann: Yeah, so, I started developing like a list of rules,

Or guidelines for myself. And I did it because I, um, like I was, I got divorced a few years ago, and so when I [00:01:00] jumped back into dating, like everyone was online dating and I had never really online dated, so I was like, Wait, what is this?

Like how do you go about doing this? So I felt like I needed like to figure out like my own, like best practices. And so that's how I developed this guide after a series of trial narrow dates about what was working and what was.

Julie: Uh

Ann: Uh, and so this like helping set up these guidelines really helped me have better date experiences and find people that I was more interested in connecting with.

Uh, and so that's how these like sort of guidelines came up. Um, and the first guideline is always schedule a FaceTime before scheduling in person date. And I have just found that in my experience, people. The way they show up on a profile may or may not be how they actually show up in real life. and second, it like a FaceTime, a really quick FaceTime is a really good way to see if you click with someone, , immediately, you, you know, someone can be perfect for you on paper, but then when you meet, meet up, then there's like no connection.

Or someone can be like, Oh, I don't necessarily think I have anything in common at this person, but [00:02:00] like, when you meet them, um, it could be much better in person. But just a small example of that. There was this guy that I connected with, on, I don't know which app it was. but like, okay, he seemed cool and I was like, Okay, let's talk.

, so then we got on a FaceTime, and he was bald, which isn't that big of a deal. Like all of his pictures though showed him like with hair or like wearing a hat. So like, like that was something he was like trying to cover up. And so, Particularly appreciate that. second, like the conversation was just really boring.

Like it felt like every minute was like, it was just like really painful to have a conversation with him. And so I was like, Wow, like I'm so glad I did a FaceTime because otherwise I would've spent like five hours, like getting ready to go to the day, going to the day, coming back, like doing all that. but now, like I did like a really quick FaceTime and I knew that like, you know, I'm not that interested in going out with this.

Julie: Mm-hmm.

Ann: So that's why I always schedule a FaceTime before scheduling an in-person date.

Julie: Yeah, and I would imagine that[00:03:00] this is probably more common now in a post covid world, I can imagine there's a lot of fatigue that happens with online dating that leads to dis disappointment. You know, like Exactly. We said this person doesn't look like their photos, it couldn't keep a conversation going or whatever.

So pre-screening can save. Time and money and, and save a good majority of like bad dates. How long do you think this FaceTime chat should be? Like, should people be designating, you know, a set amount of time, whether it's like 15 minutes or 20 minutes so that you don't feel this unnecessary pressure to keep the conversation going on forever out of politeness.

Like that's what I would this.

Ann: It's a really good question. I generally, in my schedule, I allocate like 30 minutes for them. I think they can be as quick as like I've had them. I dunno, like five to 15 minutes to be like, Okay, you seem cool. Let's go on a date. Um, like that's enough validation. I've had them go [00:04:00] longer if they're, Well, I think the longest one I did was like an hour and a half.

but yeah, it, like, if the conversation's really flowing well, then like it's gone on longer too. So, I don't know. I, but it doesn't have to be like anything really. It, it can just, I would schedule like 15 minutes say, Can you talk to this person for 15?

Julie: Yeah I mean, you can't guarantee that the first date is gonna go well just by having a preliminary call.

but I do think it can improve the chances in most situations. I think there could be like a small. Percentage of people who just may not be good on camera or they may be like thrown off by it, um, I don't know. I cuz like if you're good at video and the other person is. So new to it or they're just not familiar with it, like chances are, they might feel intimidated, than usual and just totally bomb it and so, you know, maybe just like also take it with a grain of salt.

Ann: Yeah, I, It's a really good point. Some people might not be comfortable doing it. Um, I have found that most people are [00:05:00] totally fine. Like I've had a few people kind of push back and be like, Oh, I'd rather just meet in person.

Julie: Yeah.

Ann: but the mostly people have been very open to it. and I've just found that like, however I feel during the video chat is also how I'm gonna feel on the first date and also how I'm gonna feel every other time I meet them.

Like, whatever happens is just, for me, it's just always been a very accurate representation of what it's gonna be like to go out.

Julie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. I mean, the worst thing that can happen is you have an awkward 10 minute call, whatever. That's better than wasting a whole Friday night. Right.

Ann: Yeah. And especially for women, like we have to get dressed up, like we have to go places. It is just, you know, I think guys don't think like median person doesn't. Mean as much for them because they don't have to do anything to get ready. But like, that's not what it's like for women. and I, I date in the Bay Area and so I date like all around the Bay Area.

And so going from one area of the bay to another is like a time intensive process. And I'd rather not put in that time investment unless I'm like, [00:06:00] okay, there's a reasonable chance to date.

Julie: Right. Tell us the second tip that you have.

Ann: yeah, I ask guys out on these dating apps a lot, mostly because I found that. Hmm. A lot of the men that I was connecting with I think were like, kind of afraid to ask me out or like, they weren't sure if they needed to spend a lot of time talking to me or texting me before they asked me out. and then like, you know, I'd do the FaceTime or I'd get to the date and I'd be like, you know, I don't really wanna.

Go out with you. And so I was like, Oh man, I spent all this time texting with Sky who I don't wanna go out with. and so that was kind of how I developed this rule of like, okay, like text a little bit to develop some banter and develop some connection. But then at some point, like after like, I don't know, like two maximum three days of texting, ask the person out.

Like, I don't wanna waste time investing my time and emotional energy in someone that I'm not gonna like in.

Julie: Yeah, . It's definitely better to meet sooner than later in person because I think it also just stops you from [00:07:00] overthinking or like building up this idea in your head of like who they are. And that doesn't always match to reality. And I, I know that's happened to me plenty of times where I just like talked to someone for so long and it went like months before I actually met them in person.

A lot of those situations it was because long distance, but nonetheless, it was the same thing I. , all of that time spent of just like talking back and forth and kind of like being pen pals. And then when we met, met in person, it was just so not it.

Ann: Yeah, absolutely. I found that like one of my worst dates was 10 years ago or something where I met someone who I think I met through Kcu ID something and so he would send me like really long text messages and I was like, Wow, this guy seems really great. And then I met up with him at a bar and.

Wouldn't make eye contact like had nothing to say in person, like couldn't just looked at his feet the entire time, and like poor guy who was probably super shy and awkward. Um, but also I don't want to go, didn't want to date him, and [00:08:00] I could have saved myself a lot of time if I didn't spend like, like weeks texting with him before meeting up with him in person.

Julie: Yeah. So schedule something sooner than later if you're feeling, you know, a connection after a couple days. One person make the move. And I think I saw, , it was either in the guide or, or in our preliminary chat. but you wanna offer up a plan, right?

Like, don't just say, what do? you want to.

do?

Ann: I, Yes. Uh, total true. I also leave, this is like a great opportunity I think for like guys to jump in. and so like if I ask someone out, Almost always the other person will be like, Okay, well how about we meet here at like whatever date? Right? Like, and it's just a really good way to sort of match the energy and enthusiasm.

Cause I think the reason why a lot of women don't ask out is because they're like, I don't know if this guy's actually interested in me. I don't know if you want to go out with me, so I don't wanna do that. But if you ask them out and they like respond with like a concrete plan that shows interest and initiative, and I feel [00:09:00] like nine, nine out of 10 times when.

Ask someone out, like they do respond like that. And so it's sort of a confirmation of interest for me.

Julie: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Yeah. That's a good. So let's move on to the next one. Tell us about the third tip that you have.

in. Ann: my third tip is about not texting too much for the first and second date. I have been in several situations where, again, I have texted a lot with someone. And then only to like go on one, maybe two dates with them and then realize that, you know, we're not actually compatible. Like there's. Major issues.

And then it's hard for me. It's like I get more emotionally attached and so it's harder for me to walk away from that person who I'm not compatible with. and so this is just what I do to like, prevent myself from developing feelings too early. I don't text a ton between the first, uh, like until after the second date because I wanna make sure that, okay, this person's actually.

A legitimate prospect versus,[00:10:00] someone I'm going out a day with. And it really helps me keep my, um, emotions

Julie: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I get you there. I think that for me, like that kind of goes back to the, um, point I was saying earlier about just like this idea that you start building up in your head. Once you start like doing a lot of texting back and forth, that may not actually match up to reality. okay. Let's move on to the next piece of advice, which is, first dates are hit or miss, so schedule a low investment date. Tell us a little bit more about that.

Ann: Uh, I think there is almost nothing worse than being stuck at like a multi-hour dinner with someone you don't have much to talk about. Um, and so you just never know what someone's gonna be like in person. Like, a lot of times people are fine, but maybe you just don't wanna be hanging out with them for hours and hours.

Like I, there was Sky that I was like really interested in the summer. We did this thing, we played like all night Scrabble together. And I was like, Aw, like this guy's like, seems super cute and cool. and then so we met up and [00:11:00] luckily I followed this rule and I was like, Okay, like we're gonna go to a bar.

And so we met up at a bar just for a drink, and I really wasn't having a good time in person. um, again, another instance of someone being a great texter, but not necessarily like our energies didn't vibe in real life. you know, super, like nice guy, sweet, fun, cute, but just it wasn't vibing.

and so, An hour and a half in, I was able to like leave. But like if I had committed to like dinner and like a much more lengthier activity, I would've felt really bad and I would've been hanging out with him and, but not really wasn't, it would not have got on anywhere. It would've been like a waste of both of our times.

Um, so I always try to schedule really low cost and low time investment activities so that um, if it's not going well, either one of us can leave.

Julie: Yeah, I think we're long past the age where. We're expecting like a full on, you know, sit down dinner when you're meeting for a first date for the very first time. I do think it's, it's different [00:12:00] if you've met someone like through a more organic setting, like maybe through work or something of that nature where you've kind of already had.

Establish some sort of friendship and you're wanting to see if it could lead to something more than like, I think a proper dinner date is more appropriate in those situations. But when you're meeting, you know, Joe Schmo off of Bumble, like just do something that's quick and, and low investment. And what happens? if you are on a date and you're not having a good time, what kind of advice do you have around, that.

Ann: So I found myself in multiple situations where, the waiter would come by for, uh, like, and they'd ask like, Do you want a second drink? And I'd be like, I want, like, I would wanna say I want the check, but my date is like, Yeah, I'd like a second drink. And. Oh God, , I'm here for another hour. Um, and so I just started practicing an out statement when that happens.

Um, [00:13:00] just to be like, Oh, I'm so sorry. I actually have to run. I'm going to this thing. and like I, it's a joke. My family, I always say I have to like, pick up my cousin from the airport. Um, And so this is just, but like I had to like actually practice it. Like I said it out, I wrote it out, I said it out loud to myself.

and maybe it's cuz I'm like really bad at setting boundaries, but like I had to do all that stuff and I stayed out loud for each day just so that in case I get there and I don't wanna be there any longer. I have now and now that I probably revealed this on a podcast, I can't ever use that line again.

So. Great. Good job Ann

Julie: Yeah, that's funny. It's easier if you have something in mind, practice, so that way you're not, you know, stumbling over your words when you're unexpectedly asked if you want to continue the date. Do you have any dating stories where you've actually had to use that out statement?

Ann: Oh yeah, no, absolutely. I've definitely used it. Yeah, just, uh, like that guy that I was at a bar with, he had the Barbie brat was like really loud. And I guess I'm like noise sensitive. Cause [00:14:00] I could develop migraines if I'm in an area that's like really loud. and so then I, but I, so I was like, This bar is not working.

I have to get outta here. I was like, I just cannot be here else. I'm gonna get nauseous and like all these things. And so I just was able to blurt out like, Oh, I'm sorry, I have to go get my cousin from the airport. It worked, and so that's what I use now as my statement.

Julie: You're gonna have to come up with a new one now.

Um, okay, so we get to the date, we finish the date, and now we're back home. let's say you weren't feeling it, what advice do you have for someone who went on a date and does not want to continue seeing this person?

What's the best approach?

Ann: So generally, I don't know what I would advise. . Well, okay. So as a girl, like I just wait for the guy to text me and sometimes he doesn't text me and I'm like, Great. It was mutually determined that we don't wanna hang out again. And so then I don't have to do

Julie: Yeah, that's [00:15:00]

Ann: Yeah, exactly. Sure. No harm, no foul. Like, um, and that happens, That's happened to me. And I'm like, Okay, cool. Like, I'm not, I'm not that bothered by it. Um, other. Uh, if they text me and I'm not interested in them, I'll just be upfront like I have, again, I have like something drafted on my phone, like a text message that I sent.

Hey, it was super cool to meet you last night. I wasn't really feeling the connection between us, so I don't think we should go out again. Um, hope you have, uh, hope you find, have a lot of luck out there finding who you want. Um, So I just have those kind of statements, uh, ready, drafted, and ready to go that I send.

And so it's like pretty easy. I'm against ghosting. I think that if you went out with someone, be upfront and honest with them and communicate. I think that's just part of adulthood. And so I just, I don't quite understand the ghosting culture.

Julie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I think, honesty is the best policy. It's, it's a little different when things fizzle out, but if someone does reach out, you know the right thing to do is respond. Yeah. Let's say you go on the date [00:16:00] and you did have a great time, and you know, you want to see the other person again.

Like what should either person do

Ann: I think almost always. When I leave the date, like if it's a great date, like usually before the end of the date, the guy asks me out again. He'll say, You know, we should do this again sometime. And then like we schedule it, or he asks me to text him when I get home. Um, and so I usually text and say, Hey, had a really fun time, like, I'll see you next week, or looking forward to seeing again.

And then that usually gets him to like, make more concrete plans, um, and. I just find that that's, that's a natural point to create the next step in seeing someone.

Julie: Yeah. Yeah. PSA to all guys. If you go on a date and you like the girl and you want to see her again, texting, Hey, , let me know when you get home. Like that goes a long way. I think every girl appreciates that.

Ann: Yeah. Yeah, and like if you text that, like if you don't get a response, then maybe [00:17:00] she does not, she doesn't wanna see you again. But if she's like, Hey, I had a great time, then that's a, that makes it really easy for you to ask about again.

Julie: Yeah. And then as far as the second date, as far as like what to do on the second date, do you have any suggestions or advice around planning for that second date?

Ann: I like more active dates, like, I like going for walks or I like walking around like an art exhibit or just doing something where you can talk more face to face. So I try to schedule more of those kind of things. It's easier in the summer, when it's like lighter out. Uh, I just find that like there's less activities like that, those, like those kind of activities indoors.

Um, and so now that. It's like Fallon's getting darker. what I tend to do now is, is more of a standard like dinner date. And so, um, I am willing to like, Okay, I'll come into having dinner with you. I'm like, but like, it has to be someone I'm actually looking forward to having dinner with.

Julie: Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think the only thing I would add to that is [00:18:00] picking something that allows you to explore. Some kind of shared interest together that you learned about on the first date. So like if you've learned that both of you like a particular kind of food or you know, whatever it is, like a, a type of music or a type of workout or whatever.

I think making that as a part of your second date is a pretty foolproof formula. I think anything that's like kind of thoughtful in nature will really go a long way. I remember. A few years ago I met this guy on a dating app and we probably went on like, maybe in total, we probably went on three or four dates, before it just fizzled out.

but on the first date he came to a workout class with me, and that was basically supposed to be the, the date, but, He asked me if I wanted to walk over to the sushi place next door, and I was like, Yeah, sure you know, it's, it was, it was totally fine. We had a great time. Like, we laughed a lot He was really nice, really sweet and all of that.

And I [00:19:00] remember telling him during our date, and I have no idea how this conversation came up, but like, basically that week I had ordered a Yeti coffee. and I'm a really big coffee drinker. And so this mug that I, that I bought, the lid that came with a mug had like a permanent open spout.

And so that open spout essentially meant that exposure would make my coffee get cold. Quickly, and it totally defeats the purpose of having a thermo that's supposed to like keep something warm. You know, like, And so if you wanted to get a lid that has the covering that you can open and close, you have to buy that as a separate accessory.

And I'm like, out of principle, this is such a dumb design, like, This is such a racket. Just make the damn mug with a spout that has a covering in the first place.

 , and then it's also like now I have to go and get another lid, and now I'm stuck with two lids. So anyways, whatever first world dilemma. somehow this ramp came up on our date

And on our second [00:20:00] date, He showed up with that exact Yeti lid that had the spot with the covering that opens and closes, which I was like, Oh my gosh, that is so sweet. and I'm not saying you have to show up with like gifts. That's, that's totally not what I'm saying. I think the point is like if you could, if you had a really great time and you can remember something that happened or that you talked about from the first date and apply that, you know, in some way to the second date, I think that like really goes a long.

Ann: Yeah, absolutely.

Julie: Um, let's see. I also like what you said about give people a chance. if you're not interested, try going on at least one more date.

Ann: Uh, so I dated someone last summer who, at the onset, I was like, Okay, he seems like a cool guy. Like, I wasn't super into it. Like, you know, I'll like go out with him again. and so I went out with him a couple more times and I kept being like, there's no good reason why I should stop seeing this person

Um, and I remember like, I like [00:21:00] asked him a question for example, I was like, I wanted to know like why he was vegetarian. And I was like looking for a reason , for me to not go out with him. But then he was like, Oh, I think it's just like more ethical and better for the planet.

And I was like, Man, that was like such a good answer. Okay, fine. You give another date . And so, uh, I just kept doing that and I ended up really liking him. And it took, you know, it took, uh, several dates, but, and it ultimately didn't work out. Um, but it was a, it just taught me that it's possible to build those kind of feelings and connection for someone.

Um, and. If there's, if I like someone and there's no particularly good reason why I shouldn't go out and no like red flags or anything, then um, I try to make the effort to go out with them again.

Julie: Yeah, And I think it's totally normal that it can take a date or two to really warm up to someone and just be yourself. Like, I mean, naturally on a first date, like you may not feel entirely yourself cuz you're a little nervous. I think that's, normal and so, I agree with you. Unless you see some [00:22:00] alarming red flags, it doesn't hurt to at least give someone another chance.

and just see if something picks up more on that second date.

Ann: Yeah, and obviously like if you're not into it, you're not into it, but if you're like unsure, then give it. Give it a try. Okay.

Julie: totally. I think the whole, um, I know we're kind of jumping over the place, but I think the whole , playing hard to get is kind of overrated. It's just not attractive to me, you know, in my opinion. Like, I'm not saying like throw yourself onto someone, but if you had a good time and you wanna see someone again, let them know, you know, like confidence is attractive and it's attractive when someone has the confidence to put themselves out there and, and be vulner.

Ann: Yeah, I totally. I also think that like, playing hard to get is like, that's is not the relationship you want where you're constantly playing hard to get, like, you know, you're setting the tone and dynamic of the relationship. and I, I kind of think that like, you should be upfront if you like someone, again, don't throw yourself at them, but like be upfront about your interest level.

And [00:23:00] if that person doesn't reciprocate, then that person doesn't reciprocate. Like we all have our Hyper specialized checklist of whatever we're looking for. don't take it personally. Move on to the next one. Like clear the space so that the universe can bring someone better for you.

Julie: Right,. what kind of advice do you have around kissing someone on the first or second day?

Ann: I almost never kiss on the first date. Um, I, I don't because I find that like you're just two strangers meeting up. Like it doesn't, there has to be a lot of sort of, Warming up that has to happen before I feel comfortable to kiss someone. And I, and for me, that doesn't usually happen on the first date.

Not that it never happens, but it often doesn't happen. So I sort of take that expectation off the table, which I found reduced a lot of nervousness, um, on my part for some reason. Um, and so now I just focus on like, do I like this person? Do I wanna go on a second date with them? Um, and I don't let myself think about, kiss.

Julie: Mm-hmm. So, okay. Let's talk about maybe just like [00:24:00] how to think about kissing in those first few dates. So, If you're a girl and you are open to a kiss from the guy, what are some things that you can do to kind of signal your openness?

Ann: Yeah. So, uh, I created this whole process for myself. Figure out like if, if I do wanna kiss someone, which again, doesn't happen so often on the first day, but if I do wanna, like how do I make it happen? And so, the first thing that I do is I break the touch barrier. so just like when I meet him, I like, I'll hug him and then, And then like when we sit down to chat, like I'll just like grab, I'll like lightly touch his arm, or just like, just, or put my hand on his back just like as we were walking to guide us.

Um, so the little things to like break that touch barrier to make it, to make him feel that, okay, I'm open to physical touch. sometimes I'll go as far as to hold his hand if I. That comfortable or like play with his hands. Like if I'm like [00:25:00] trying to be flirty about it, like, um, I'll like hold his hands and like play with his fingers.

and then the last thing I do is like, when we're saying goodbye, I kiss him on the cheek. Uh, and that's is almost every guy I've gone out with has taken that as an indication that I'm open to being kissed and they will reciprocate. so that's sort of how I lead up to that.

Julie: yeah, yeah. I think that makes sense. You know, like just signaling your openness and sometimes they just need a little confirmation that, that you're open to it.

Ann: Yeah, so one time, like I was talking to this guy and I said something about like, what's the big deal about first dates? And he's like, When was the last time you initiated a first kiss? And I was like, Oh, that's a good point. And then I realized like, Oh, that must be really scary for them. and how would I, like if I wanted it to happen, how would I make it easier for them and let them know that that's something I'm open.

Julie: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. I think when it comes to kissing, I mean, it's just like, you know, you just gotta read the room. no two first dates or even second dates are gonna be alike, and it's totally up to you, [00:26:00] to read the room and assess how you feel. Most of the time, it's just something that happens in the moment.

 But like, you know, don't be like weird and try to force one. I, I have have had like first dates where we kiss most of the time it doesn't happen, but it has happened and it felt totally normal and natural.

You know, like, I think, I think it's just important to remember like, it's totally your decision, you know, like every, every date is gonna be different.

Ann: Yeah, like I, I totally wanna dispel the myth that you have to kiss on the first day. Like, I don't think that's true at all. I do think it should happen for the second or third date. Um, just because like otherwise you might just think you're just friends and you're not into her. So, yeah, if you're def if you are into this person, then definitely try and make that happen by the second or third date.

Julie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, . Do you like when men walk you to your car, if it's at night,

Ann: depends on how much I'm, how comfortable I feel. a [00:27:00] lot of times it don't let men walk me to my car. Uh, I just find that that's like, A really great situation for them to try to kiss me if I'm not into it. And so I'm like, , I just try to sort of hug them goodbye.

Um, and then if they're like, Oh, he's to your car, and I'll be like, Oh no, I'm good. I'm just gonna make a phone call. , and so that. Is, Yeah, that's what I normally do. Sometimes I will let them walk me to the car. Almost every guy that I go out with attempts to walk me to my car. And so, I get really weird and touching about it.

Uh, and so I'm just like, you know, if I'm, if I'm like lukewarm or like it's a no for me, then I'm just kind of like, I would rather have my space to walk to the car

Julie: Mm-hmm. . , so basically it's like if you're into them then it's fine. If you're not into them, then it's like, no,

Ann: Yeah, I mean, guys always offer, right, like l. Lots of girls want to be walked to their car and like I, you know, I live in San Francisco and there's like tons of really like sketchy streets. Um, and so I [00:28:00] don't always say no, uh, but you know, always ask our other girls who might be more into it than

Julie: Yeah. I think I would definitely appreciate someone offering. But that doesn't mean that I will like say yes, but I would definitely appreciate it and I would take note of that. Um, how has the online dating experience been for you? Like overall post posterior.

Ann: you know, it's kind of strange for me just because I'm dating in a new area than when I, dated, when I was younger, I lived on the East Coast and. Was dating there and I was meeting people organically. Cause I was like in my early twenties, uh, and now I'm in my mid thirties and so things have changed a little bit.

Um, so it's hard for me to know, like, how much is it online dating? How much is it? Because, I'm sort of at a different phase of life and I'm different. , and how much is it that like the people I'm going out with are different? . Um, so it's been definitely like, it, it took me a while to get the swing of things to figure out, like, okay, how do [00:29:00] I do this well?

and so recently now that I have, like, since I've implemented like all my numerous guidelines, I'm having better experiences. I, I go on a lot of dates. I try to go on like one a week. and so that's been interesting. Um, I'm trying. Be more focused and figure out like, okay, , who do I actually want to go out with?

and try to pick, try to be more choosy because I felt like I was getting burned out, of going on all these dates and so, I'm just trying to be more intentional with my efforts and mostly like, I essentially just switched my perspective and being like, I'm gonna do this until I find my next partner to feeling like, you know what, this is like something I do, like one night a week, I go on a date, I get to meet someone here, a different perspective.

Um, and like. If it goes somewhere, great. If it doesn't go anywhere, great. like I'll just have like a funny evening. And that's sort of like the only thing that I'm trying. And like, also it gives me like good stories to tell my friends and [00:30:00] family. My siblings always say that hearing about my dates is like their favorite TV show. Sometimes they just watch different characters come in all the time and they're always looking for updates. and so thinking about it and shifting my perspective as this is how I'm gonna meet my next partner to, I'm just gonna enjoy myself, has really helped me take, uh, a chill pill about this. Cuz I used to like, go on these dates and get really upset if it wasn't going. Um, but now I sort of just go and have fun. And if it's fun, then I'm like, Great, uh, I met my expectation. And if it's not, I'm like, Oh, well that didn't work out. Moving on.

Julie: Yeah, I think that's a really good point. I actually had a friend who, she lived in New York for many years and she just got so burned out from, dating and she said she started kind of thinking about it in a, in a similar fashion where she was like, You know what, there's all these different lounges and restaurants and places that I want to see like check off my bucket list while I'm living in New York City.

Let me just [00:31:00] use. The dates as a way to do that. Um, and so that kind of like alleviated a lot of the pressure of like, Oh, I'm going on a date so I can go on a second date and then , meet my boyfriend who's gonna turn into my husband. And just instead of that to, Okay, I'm just meeting someone and we're gonna go and do something fun that I would have wanted to do.

, regardless of whether it was a date or.

Ann: Yeah.

Julie: question I have for you, because it's been a while since I've been off the apps, and I think now the voice memos are a lot more common. Do people use voice memos and do you like it when people that you're chatting with share a voice memo through the.

Ann: yes, people do use voicemails. I think Hinge has like a prompt for it so you can include it in your profile. Um, I'm pretty sure I had one. and I have seen other people, I think this past summer I saw a lot more people using that voice memo feature on the profile. do I like it? Uh, yeah, I think it's kinda cool.

I. I think if that is an option in someone's profile, I almost [00:32:00] always click it. cause it just gives you like a much greater, like a profile is so flat, you don't know anything about this person. but being able to hear their voice or seeing them on video or seeing them on FaceTime, that gives you a really good sense of who this person is.

Um, and so that's sort of, I found it pretty helpful. Um, I haven't had too, Voice memos come across in messages. Um, it's just on their face profile, so,

Julie: Hmm. And what about like, do you recommend keeping your conversations within, that app platform? for however many dates before actually exchanging phone numbers and then moving the conversation to sms, you know, text messaging or.

Ann: Yeah, no, it's a great point. I don't like being on the apps. Um, I set myself like a limit of like, I think 30 minutes a day. And honestly, like 90% of days I'm not on it. I just find the whole process kind of draining and, and I don't like the, I don't [00:33:00] like the commoditization of people. Like, like it how it prompts you to go through new profiles.

And so my profile is like paused while I. Chat with two or three people at a time. and then while like once I match with two or three people who I'm interested in, then I pause my profile so I don't see other people. so I can just focus on the people, me and treat them like actual people.

Because I found that I was like getting distracted by like all of these like endless possibilities when I was like, Wait, that's like I need to actually explore the people that I connected with and I, anyway. Having the profile, having the apps like prompt me to see tons more profiles just led to me being burned out and overwhelmed.

and so I just, I don't spend that much time on the apps. that said so I try to like chat with them a few times on the app. Then I schedule a FaceTime, and by the time we schedule FaceTime, they kind of need my number to schedule the actual FaceTime. and so for that reason, I, we share numbers and then we go from there, and then from there on, it's just texting.

It's not app based.

Julie: Right. You mentioned pausing your [00:34:00] app. I didn't even realize that that was an option to be able to pause your app. So does that mean that you can still be active on the app and communicate with people?

You're just not getting new people showing up in your queue?

Ann: Yeah, actually, yeah, that's exactly what it means. It means that I can still communicate, but I'm not shown new profiles and my profile is not shown to other people. because oftentimes like if I don't do that, then I'll get like tons of messages and I'll be like, Okay, I'm not responding to any of these people.

And I feel like that's just a shitty experience for guys. And online dating sucks. I think it must really suck for guys. so that's what I do to manage this process for me.

Julie: . Yeah, makes sense.

. I think we covered a lot. I don't know if there's anything else that you wanna share before we, , end this episode,

Ann: I think the number one thing I have learned is that online dating is, or maybe dating in general probably, requires a lot of emotional resiliency. And so build that in, whatever that looks like for you. For me, it's having all these tips. How do I make it, [00:35:00] make it more likely that I'm going to enjoy connecting with someone, whether by a message or, and hopefully in person.

and then two, being like, Okay, I just talked to two or three people at a time. I really explore. Few people as, uh, potential matches. And then if we, if and when these don't work out, then I move on to my, like, next batch of two or three people. So for example, I connected with a bunch of people in early August, , and I am still working through my backlog of folks from early August, and I'll probably be doing that for the rest of the year and I probably won't open up the apps again

until early January.

Um, and that's just how I do things. So I don't. I so that I feel like I can treat people as people

Julie: Yeah.

Ann: and not like, okay, there's always another person. Like, yeah, there is always gonna be another person, but like everyone has their issues. It's like the, the paradox of choice, Um, and so , these are just things I do to help my brain stay grounded rather than thinking about, Oh, well I don't like this about [00:36:00] this person. Like, well, what, Is there someone else out there who's like better in this way? Right? There's a sample size, um, that's important.

Um, and finally I give myself breaks. So I go on day, I try to go on one day a week. If it doesn't happen, like no big deal. and if I start feeling overwhelmed, and feeling like I'm gonna burn out, then I stop. And that is like the way I keep myself from. Keep going in this process rather than just get me up.

And it usually happens, you know, I, I'll pause it for a few weeks and then, uh, and then I'll feel better and I'll be like, Okay, I'm ready to do this tab at this again. and that's just how I get through life. Like break down things I don't wanna do into like, manful chunks, and then tackle it a little bit at a time.

Julie: Yeah. Yeah. No, I think those are such great pieces of advice,

Ann: julie, I have one more thing I wanted to say. a couple of resources that I found really helpful for online dating. There's this book called How Not to Die Alone by Logan Erie, which I thought was like really helpful in trying to understand how you should think about and approach and develop your own strategy [00:37:00] for online dating.

, and I also follow this podcast called Dating Intentionally, and that I found that's really. Um, and finding Mr. Height. Those are two other podcasts that I found helpful for online dating.

Julie: Finding Mr. Wright? Is

that

Ann: Mr. Height, Finding Mr. Height?

Julie: Like h H E I g h t.

Oh, interesting. Okay, cool. This was, a really fun topic. I'm excited to release this. I know this is gonna be like a very popular

populous

Ann: Yeah. Cool.

Julie: Thank you.